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	<title>Comments for The Bhatany Report</title>
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	<description>this ain't about flowers</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Wed, 25 Nov 2009 19:55:57 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>Comment on Issue XXX: The Nonprofit Hospital Scam by bhatany</title>
		<link>http://bhatany.wordpress.com/2009/07/30/issue-xxx-the-nonprofit-hospital-scam/#comment-189</link>
		<dc:creator>bhatany</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Nov 2009 19:55:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bhatany.wordpress.com/?p=317#comment-189</guid>
		<description>1)  Where does prestige come from?  - In American academic medicine the answer is clear.  Research excellence (based on NIH funding) not clinical excellence.  This is well known internationally.  Is this in line with what we really value in society?  If people knew that the most prestigious schools have big names not because they necessarily have the best clinicians but by bench research, would that change the way they view doctors from less prominent schools?

2)  Are the tax breaks justified? - Health care in America is a business.  I don&#039;t agree with that philosophically, but that is the present case.  If nonprofit hospitals are supposed to provide a social benefit in exchange for tax-exempt status, what should be done when they pursue private patients and behave no differently than for-profit hospitals.  For-profit hospitals DO see indigent patients without such tax breaks including one mentioned in the Chicago Tribune on the South Side.  Why does U of C deserve tax-exempt status if the numbers (assuming they are correct) show only nominal amounts of charity care?  Perhaps we limit or define what tax-exempt status means in a hospital setting.

3)  Many nonprofit hospitals are cash cows - Anyone with eyes knows this.  Balance sheets don&#039;t lie.  Last week, I spoke an economics student who worked at Univ. of Chicago who told me that whenever the hospital made a big profit, they would hide it by just paying the administrators more money (increasing expenses) to make it look less profitable than it is.  Without inflation of hospital administrator salaries, the profit figures would look even bigger.  Last night, an ex-pharm rep told me that Denver Children&#039;s Hospital would skimp on neonatal treatments to keep more of their DRG payments (in this case by not giving the monoclonal antibodies that were covered under the DRG lump sum).  I didn&#039;t make this stuff up.
    In business competition, nonprofit hospitals can use tax benefits to demolish for-profit competitors by investing in capital.  I have heard complaints from private hospital administrators about this unfair competition.

4)  Institution versus individual - Just because you, Brett, work for a questionable institution it doesn&#039;t make you a bad person.  Clearly you do a good job and treat your patients right.  That doesn&#039;t preclude the fact that you aren&#039;t in control of what patients end up in your service.  That&#039;s a policy and administrator issue.  Nothing in my post is to insult the very good work that nurses and doctors at these hospitals do.  I question the larger institutions they work for and whether they have the right philosophy and policies behind them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>1)  Where does prestige come from?  &#8211; In American academic medicine the answer is clear.  Research excellence (based on NIH funding) not clinical excellence.  This is well known internationally.  Is this in line with what we really value in society?  If people knew that the most prestigious schools have big names not because they necessarily have the best clinicians but by bench research, would that change the way they view doctors from less prominent schools?</p>
<p>2)  Are the tax breaks justified? &#8211; Health care in America is a business.  I don&#8217;t agree with that philosophically, but that is the present case.  If nonprofit hospitals are supposed to provide a social benefit in exchange for tax-exempt status, what should be done when they pursue private patients and behave no differently than for-profit hospitals.  For-profit hospitals DO see indigent patients without such tax breaks including one mentioned in the Chicago Tribune on the South Side.  Why does U of C deserve tax-exempt status if the numbers (assuming they are correct) show only nominal amounts of charity care?  Perhaps we limit or define what tax-exempt status means in a hospital setting.</p>
<p>3)  Many nonprofit hospitals are cash cows &#8211; Anyone with eyes knows this.  Balance sheets don&#8217;t lie.  Last week, I spoke an economics student who worked at Univ. of Chicago who told me that whenever the hospital made a big profit, they would hide it by just paying the administrators more money (increasing expenses) to make it look less profitable than it is.  Without inflation of hospital administrator salaries, the profit figures would look even bigger.  Last night, an ex-pharm rep told me that Denver Children&#8217;s Hospital would skimp on neonatal treatments to keep more of their DRG payments (in this case by not giving the monoclonal antibodies that were covered under the DRG lump sum).  I didn&#8217;t make this stuff up.<br />
    In business competition, nonprofit hospitals can use tax benefits to demolish for-profit competitors by investing in capital.  I have heard complaints from private hospital administrators about this unfair competition.</p>
<p>4)  Institution versus individual &#8211; Just because you, Brett, work for a questionable institution it doesn&#8217;t make you a bad person.  Clearly you do a good job and treat your patients right.  That doesn&#8217;t preclude the fact that you aren&#8217;t in control of what patients end up in your service.  That&#8217;s a policy and administrator issue.  Nothing in my post is to insult the very good work that nurses and doctors at these hospitals do.  I question the larger institutions they work for and whether they have the right philosophy and policies behind them.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Issue XXX: The Nonprofit Hospital Scam by bhatany</title>
		<link>http://bhatany.wordpress.com/2009/07/30/issue-xxx-the-nonprofit-hospital-scam/#comment-188</link>
		<dc:creator>bhatany</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Nov 2009 19:35:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bhatany.wordpress.com/?p=317#comment-188</guid>
		<description>Dear Brett, 
    Thanks for the commentary.  As for whether or not I have waken up at 5:30AM to round on indigent patients, the answer is that I have because I am a medical student at a state hospital where only 15% of our patients are on private insurance.  I&#039;ve also rounded in our prison hospital.  I plan to do residency as well at a program with a county or state hospital treating indigent patients.  Do you have the patient figures for the University of Chicago?  Because I would love to be proven wrong about how many private patients they see as a whole.  Assuming you are a resident or med student, I&#039;ll just point out that everyone knows VIPs get seen by attending professors, not residents or med students.  

More points will follow.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear Brett,<br />
    Thanks for the commentary.  As for whether or not I have waken up at 5:30AM to round on indigent patients, the answer is that I have because I am a medical student at a state hospital where only 15% of our patients are on private insurance.  I&#8217;ve also rounded in our prison hospital.  I plan to do residency as well at a program with a county or state hospital treating indigent patients.  Do you have the patient figures for the University of Chicago?  Because I would love to be proven wrong about how many private patients they see as a whole.  Assuming you are a resident or med student, I&#8217;ll just point out that everyone knows VIPs get seen by attending professors, not residents or med students.  </p>
<p>More points will follow.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Issue XXX: The Nonprofit Hospital Scam by Brett Muhlhan</title>
		<link>http://bhatany.wordpress.com/2009/07/30/issue-xxx-the-nonprofit-hospital-scam/#comment-186</link>
		<dc:creator>Brett Muhlhan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2009 03:47:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bhatany.wordpress.com/?p=317#comment-186</guid>
		<description>Help me understand something.  In fact, why don&#039;t you wake your ass up tomorrow morning at 5:30 a.m. and meet me @ the the University of Chicago Hospital where I will show you 3 people who cannot afford a can of SPAGHETTI-O&#039;S, much less health insurance that I will be treating.  After I treat them for their &quot;free heart transplants&quot; (I believe free means we accept no money for their surgery, hence no profit.)  I am sure some how we get paid since I get paid an hourly wage to give them mani&#039;s &amp; pedi&#039;s , but to my knowledge the poor patient pays nothing.  Then we can walk down the hall to the person who is on dialysis who cannot pay to have her own home/apartment/condo/shed/car/box with flooring, you name it.  Lets ask her how we refused to provide her with Beverly Hills type treatment.  I actually bought her a coffee, maybe you always buy coffees for rich people too.  She cannot afford a mocha frappachino latte.  But luckily we turned her away after hosting her for 5 months and healing her.  Nothing like working my ass off, you get pissed about one kid with a lip problem, and we are satan.  Nice job.  Keep blogging away as I am sure you are that &quot;weird person&quot; I avoid in line at grocery stores.  You probably, no 100% you do, that is sit back and blame society for your problems.  Would love to chat, but I have to get up in 7 hours and go take care of Seal, Oprah and Bill Gates, because they all got papercuts on their fingers from counting their money and we will treat them since they are worth 10 bajillion dollars (wait you have to laugh like Dr. Evil when you read that, it&#039;s better).  Enjoy life behind your surreal monitor and do not forget to ask santa for a gift since you are dilusional.  Maybe he and the Easter bunny can collaborate on your own holiday.  Might as well get U 0f C (A research hospital) to successfully fund a program to mate a rabit with an old man, then you have  your holiday mascot. Peter Hoppincklaus.  

Happy Holidays Schmuck!

Sincerely,

Someone who gets it......</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Help me understand something.  In fact, why don&#8217;t you wake your ass up tomorrow morning at 5:30 a.m. and meet me @ the the University of Chicago Hospital where I will show you 3 people who cannot afford a can of SPAGHETTI-O&#8217;S, much less health insurance that I will be treating.  After I treat them for their &#8220;free heart transplants&#8221; (I believe free means we accept no money for their surgery, hence no profit.)  I am sure some how we get paid since I get paid an hourly wage to give them mani&#8217;s &amp; pedi&#8217;s , but to my knowledge the poor patient pays nothing.  Then we can walk down the hall to the person who is on dialysis who cannot pay to have her own home/apartment/condo/shed/car/box with flooring, you name it.  Lets ask her how we refused to provide her with Beverly Hills type treatment.  I actually bought her a coffee, maybe you always buy coffees for rich people too.  She cannot afford a mocha frappachino latte.  But luckily we turned her away after hosting her for 5 months and healing her.  Nothing like working my ass off, you get pissed about one kid with a lip problem, and we are satan.  Nice job.  Keep blogging away as I am sure you are that &#8220;weird person&#8221; I avoid in line at grocery stores.  You probably, no 100% you do, that is sit back and blame society for your problems.  Would love to chat, but I have to get up in 7 hours and go take care of Seal, Oprah and Bill Gates, because they all got papercuts on their fingers from counting their money and we will treat them since they are worth 10 bajillion dollars (wait you have to laugh like Dr. Evil when you read that, it&#8217;s better).  Enjoy life behind your surreal monitor and do not forget to ask santa for a gift since you are dilusional.  Maybe he and the Easter bunny can collaborate on your own holiday.  Might as well get U 0f C (A research hospital) to successfully fund a program to mate a rabit with an old man, then you have  your holiday mascot. Peter Hoppincklaus.  </p>
<p>Happy Holidays Schmuck!</p>
<p>Sincerely,</p>
<p>Someone who gets it&#8230;&#8230;</p>
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		<title>Comment on Issue I: Who Runs this Place? by euandus2</title>
		<link>http://bhatany.wordpress.com/2007/05/17/issue-i-who-runs-this-place/#comment-185</link>
		<dc:creator>euandus2</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Nov 2009 18:52:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bhatany.wordpress.com/2007/05/17/issue-i-who-runs-this-place/#comment-185</guid>
		<description>In my view, when a sacred cow lobbies for another country, something is wrong.  I recommend the following post on the blog: http://euandus3.wordpress.com/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In my view, when a sacred cow lobbies for another country, something is wrong.  I recommend the following post on the blog: <a href="http://euandus3.wordpress.com/" rel="nofollow">http://euandus3.wordpress.com/</a></p>
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		<title>Comment on Issue X: The Case Against Everybody (this time Obamamania) by sandrar</title>
		<link>http://bhatany.wordpress.com/2007/11/21/issue-x-the-case-against-everybody-this-time-obamamania/#comment-183</link>
		<dc:creator>sandrar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Sep 2009 21:13:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bhatany.wordpress.com/2007/11/21/issue-x-the-case-against-everybody-this-time-obamamania/#comment-183</guid>
		<description>Hi! I was surfing and found your blog post... nice! I love your blog.  :) Cheers! Sandra. R.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi! I was surfing and found your blog post&#8230; nice! I love your blog.  <img src='http://s.wordpress.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />  Cheers! Sandra. R.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Issue XXXI: But Who is Education Really for? by Nabeel</title>
		<link>http://bhatany.wordpress.com/2009/08/24/but-who-is-education-really-for/#comment-181</link>
		<dc:creator>Nabeel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Aug 2009 12:15:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bhatany.wordpress.com/?p=328#comment-181</guid>
		<description>I never really saw a difference between public/private schools, except perhaps the make-up of the student body. I never felt there was a difference in the education...you can have stupid kids at Harvard or a brilliant kid at UT....however, it wouldn&#039;t surprise me if stupid kid from harvard gets ahead moreso than smart kid from UT just because of the name (I mean hell, look at our last president with his lifelong failure record yet winds up as the most powerful man in the world)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I never really saw a difference between public/private schools, except perhaps the make-up of the student body. I never felt there was a difference in the education&#8230;you can have stupid kids at Harvard or a brilliant kid at UT&#8230;.however, it wouldn&#8217;t surprise me if stupid kid from harvard gets ahead moreso than smart kid from UT just because of the name (I mean hell, look at our last president with his lifelong failure record yet winds up as the most powerful man in the world)</p>
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		<title>Comment on Issue XXX: The Nonprofit Hospital Scam by Deena</title>
		<link>http://bhatany.wordpress.com/2009/07/30/issue-xxx-the-nonprofit-hospital-scam/#comment-178</link>
		<dc:creator>Deena</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Aug 2009 05:29:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bhatany.wordpress.com/?p=317#comment-178</guid>
		<description>Where exactly do you get your facts and figures from?? Great blog. I really never thought of hospitals as money hungry businesses with stingy CEOs...go figure.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Where exactly do you get your facts and figures from?? Great blog. I really never thought of hospitals as money hungry businesses with stingy CEOs&#8230;go figure.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Issue XXX: The Nonprofit Hospital Scam by bhatany</title>
		<link>http://bhatany.wordpress.com/2009/07/30/issue-xxx-the-nonprofit-hospital-scam/#comment-175</link>
		<dc:creator>bhatany</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Jul 2009 02:15:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bhatany.wordpress.com/?p=317#comment-175</guid>
		<description>Nabeel, are you saying you RATHER have these hospitals declare themselves for profit or they should continue the nonprofit charade? 

Higher education privatization is an issue that also fascinates me; these teaching hospitals are also educational institutions as well, so it was indirectly about higher education as well.  Maybe I&#039;ll make that my thesis in London.

I never bought the line that &quot;money is the root of all evil,&quot; and it is always  inherently corrupting.  I always found that to be too Biblical and cynical for my tastes.  I guess I was wrong.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nabeel, are you saying you RATHER have these hospitals declare themselves for profit or they should continue the nonprofit charade? </p>
<p>Higher education privatization is an issue that also fascinates me; these teaching hospitals are also educational institutions as well, so it was indirectly about higher education as well.  Maybe I&#8217;ll make that my thesis in London.</p>
<p>I never bought the line that &#8220;money is the root of all evil,&#8221; and it is always  inherently corrupting.  I always found that to be too Biblical and cynical for my tastes.  I guess I was wrong.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Issue XXX: The Nonprofit Hospital Scam by Nabeel</title>
		<link>http://bhatany.wordpress.com/2009/07/30/issue-xxx-the-nonprofit-hospital-scam/#comment-174</link>
		<dc:creator>Nabeel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Jul 2009 23:10:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bhatany.wordpress.com/?p=317#comment-174</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m fairly certain the &#039;non-profit&#039; title is most striking among hospitals, a historically unbiased institution. However, I&#039;m fairly certain that you could find much of these same disregards of law &amp; humanity with any &#039;non-profit&#039; institution with enough profit (if that makes any sense...i.e. places of higher educations, some businesses, even churches). I would much rather be lied to my face than charaded into believing something that&#039;s entirely based on principles of fuzzy math</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m fairly certain the &#8216;non-profit&#8217; title is most striking among hospitals, a historically unbiased institution. However, I&#8217;m fairly certain that you could find much of these same disregards of law &amp; humanity with any &#8216;non-profit&#8217; institution with enough profit (if that makes any sense&#8230;i.e. places of higher educations, some businesses, even churches). I would much rather be lied to my face than charaded into believing something that&#8217;s entirely based on principles of fuzzy math</p>
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		<title>Comment on Issue XXX: The Nonprofit Hospital Scam by Benn Fronk</title>
		<link>http://bhatany.wordpress.com/2009/07/30/issue-xxx-the-nonprofit-hospital-scam/#comment-173</link>
		<dc:creator>Benn Fronk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Jul 2009 23:00:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bhatany.wordpress.com/?p=317#comment-173</guid>
		<description>Excellent work with this post. You&#039;ve brought in a lot of good points backed with numbers. The last quote is telling.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Excellent work with this post. You&#8217;ve brought in a lot of good points backed with numbers. The last quote is telling.</p>
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